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Yeah. So funny enough, you know, I haven't signed into this Riverside stuff since we had talked about it last or or used it last Mhmm. With the 3 picks and a podcast stuff. But I guess we started last February. So it's coming up for its 1 year annual renewal at a $180 a year, in February, I guess, right near my birthday.

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But so where we kind of were, I believe, has to do with which, I guess preemptively the Friends of the Future Foundation, f o f. Or f off is how I like to call it. F off. Hey. Hey.

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I I that's fine with me too. We we might call it that casually. So as far as the planning sessions, I thought we could kinda start talking about kind of the purpose, the point where we are in Human history? No. I mean, I think I think we all we're all aware we are in human history.

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Right? Like, ultimately, I think we should we should start talking about what what what's the ideal. Right? And almost I I thought about, like, maybe thinking about it like a political website. Right?

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Mhmm. Right. First principles type stuff. First principles type stuff. Kindly heard it, I think you are.

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I don't know. So maybe it maybe you thought I was. Anyway, thinking about it from from a perspective of of a campaign website, who I who we are, what we want, frequently asked questions, things that we stand for, issues that are important to us, and those sorts of things. But I think I think maybe future state I mean, anytime we're we're coming to something like this. Right?

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It's not it's not, willy nilly. We have a we have a kind of a a reason of of where we'd like to end up. Right? Like, where we'd like to be. And we need to I think we should kinda talk about how how that looks, what it is.

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So if, if, you know, if we're considering from the idea of Friends of the Future foundation or fellowship or whatever you wanna call it, f off. There has to be something different from the trajectory that we the way we see the world going. Right. And we had talked about previously, that we wanted to get back to a better place as a society as a whole. Maybe help, be a force for change and a force for good in the government sector.

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So before we start talking about the individual ideas of how we we come to those conclusions, I think we should start with just discussing some goals. Right? Like, what are what are some ideas and some goals and some positive changes that we can make, or that we desire to see made, and sort of defining our end state, if that makes sense. Right. So How do you feel about that?

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Oh, that sounds great. And I have a simple idea for our end state. I would like our public and private institutions to foster, equip, and support, people who are going to make the world, universe, whatever, whatever scale you wanna use it as, better for their fellow human beings. Which in a way is kind of a humanist principle. Sure.

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Okay. My riff off of that would just likely be that, I wanna see the world in a better place, period, including human beings, but not necessarily just for human beings. Well, I think I think the key is to first I mean, decide the world we're operating in. Right? We're we're human beings ourselves.

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We're 2 individual humans. Sure. We we deal with humans primarily, and that may be very different from the people Yeah. We can't I guess we can't work with, with penguins. Right?

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Like Right. We're gonna work with the penguins to bring back the ice caps. No. That's right. So how about that then?

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How about working with with human beings for the betterment of humanity? With human beings, for human beings, working with human beings, for human beings? Yeah. Of by for. Yeah.

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Of by for. I actually had I kinda had that idea too, today, and I'll as we go on, I'll talk a little bit more about some of the things that I've been watching independently that I think kind of play into this. I think a lot of time is focused on organizations like this that are trying to find a middle, like a middle ground or a, they talk about the moderates, but I don't wanna I don't really wanna think in terms of finding a purple between blue and red. Yeah. I'm not interested in your orientation between 2 extremes.

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Right. I I don't I don't think that there are any extremes. I think I would like to see us be proponents and active doers of an acting and upholding the principles that we as human beings have in common so that we can codify it before we fight on how it should be done. You know, like, and I don't I don't want to get into anything specific, specific topics. But in the idea that that that it's easy when we think of ourselves as individuals and we we have this viewpoint of individualism, hyper individualism that we've we've been that we've been kind of encouraged, to to take part in.

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And thinking outside of that and saying what's what's best for all of us, but in the sense that only the things that we have we we have in common. Right? Like, that everyone deserves at the very minimum food, shelter. You know, and and I don't know that we should necessarily define at a global scale what that should be for anybody. Right?

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Like, ultimately, a roof over their head, you know, protection from the elements, enough nourishment to survive, and, those sorts of things. And and and promoting policies that allow for that. I I think that a lot can be said for making meaningful change inside of our laws. I mean and that's the only way. Right?

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Like, ultimately, the only way we can really make a difference is by changing our laws. And if we think about it from that perspective, our goal should be to help assist with making reasonable laws for the betterment of of human beings, of our fellow human beings. Right. So we could propose and endorse and and, encourage lawmakers to adopt certain policies. Right?

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Like, we're getting right down to what we want is we want the the government and whatever its role whatever we see as its role, we want the government to play a role in fostering the the future that we wanna see or or promoting the future that we wanna see rather than actively seeking to destroy it or or being, apathetic towards it or any other type of orientation. Mhmm. So yeah. I mean, you're right. Mechanically, the way that happens is a law will be likely be written, voted on, then signed in the law, and then then those then those parts start moving.

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But from our perspective, right, what we can do is 2 individuals because we don't even if we were elected to congress tomorrow, we couldn't do much as 2 individual congresspeople. Mhmm. Or members of the house. But as 2 individuals, we can think on these things. We can, explain, elaborate on ideas, suggest things, think of things from new perspectives, and hopefully get support from other individuals that would then sort of catch the attention of the, powers that be, so to speak Mhmm.

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And allow us to, help see this platform realized. Yeah. I I think I think all those things are reasonable, and I think that's a reasonable way to to to word it and to think about it. So, ultimately, I guess you could say our mission statement should be to promote and further the greatest good of the most people, the most of humanity, the majority of humanity. The I'm I'm about to identify, articulate, and then I mean, mean, it doesn't say those words.

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They don't have big sounding words, but just to identify, to express, and then to in, endorse or encourage people to to adopt a viewpoint on government and their their role in it that is better for humankind as a whole. Yeah. I think I think that that's easy. That's that's the elevator pitch. Right?

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Right. Like, you know, you want better people? This is how we get better people. That's a real elevator pitch. It's like, if elevator door is shutting on you, like, you don't even have the 30 seconds in the elevator.

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You're just like, hey. We make people better. We show how people how to be better people, but in a but in a governmental scale. Yeah. So I don't know.

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And I mean, I think I think, ultimately, the the the basic methodology behind that should really, essentially get people on board, and and have them at at the very beginning probably voluntarily Right. Agree to uphold these principles, uphold these ideals. And to the extent that is possible through their individual actions, promote those those things first. Agreed. I think if we can get people to say that they will live as if this is the law of the land, live as if these policies were enacted, and if they can flourish by doing so, then they'll show others that these are the the preferred policies.

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Yeah. And I I think that there are maybe ways and ideas that we can put into place that can be promoted even at a local level. Maybe even the idea that we open up local chapters. Maybe a a hub and spoke kind of organizational methodology behind it. Yeah.

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I was thinking, actually, the the model that I had in mind is, you know, I'm really big on these circles of trust as we talked about before, you know, like these, sort of groups. So if you if you put together a bunch of circles of trust, you kinda end up with a chain. They can, you know, affect chain gang will be a chain gang. Yeah. That's right.

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Yeah. I was like, I just realized all the negative metaphors for chains. Like You're right. I know. Yeah.

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If you if you put a chain on a bicycle though, on a bicycle wheel Yeah. A bicycle can't run without a chain. Exactly. So I think that's maybe how I look at this, like, little links in the chain that will ultimately be become the, the chain that powers our our environmentally friendly. It's government of the future.

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Well, in the environment, humans don't go very far, I guess. Right. We'll pedal our way to prosperity. Right. I think that's good.

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I I one of the the topics that I've I've kind of accidentally, been coming to, and maybe railing on when conversations with my wife a little bit is that younger generations are reading less, including ours. I mean, it's it's not we're not immune from it, but Yeah. Are reading less, which is causing a shorter attention span. But the answer is not to go out there and be like, hey, read more books. You know?

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Like, it's not it's not to put out long form newspapers reminding people to read books. You know what I mean? Right. I think we have to utilize we have to utilize the the media in its current forms, to to garner, and gain support. I don't think what I don't want is I don't wanna create a new party.

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Right? Like, I don't I don't wanna just add a new political party to the to the spectrum and be like, okay, now we're a third party. That's gonna try to be predominant. No. I want to be party independent.

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I want to be idea pro. Like we, we promote positive ideas for the benefit of humanity. And we will do it to any person who will listen. And we have created a coalition of experts who only desire that. Right.

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And be looked to as what's better for all of us as human beings. While keeping, I mean, still keeping a very American mindset. I mean, we have to we live here. Right? Right.

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Who are we now? So I think I think that we also have to be cognizant of the fact that not only do we live here in the US, we are going to be promoting this through I guess, our actions are going to be having place having a place in of the American government. Which is not to say we won't welcome anybody from anybody globally that wants to participate. It's just that this is where we're gonna start and this is how it's gonna be oriented towards our system. Right.

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But certainly, it could be an action. Exactly. Exactly. And if if I think if we think about it like a framework, right, rather rather than necessarily a a plan of action, think of it like developing a framework for a better humanity within the country that we currently live, but adaptable to any country. Right.

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It's gonna be unique because America's unique, but not America's not exceptional to say that we're the only ones that get the the foundation of the framework or that we're the only ones that can. Right. It's just that the our framework will be unique to our situation. Agreed. Another another one of the principles and concepts that I I kind of found through the understanding why our attention spans are decreasing and really has to do with the way we consume entertainment, television, books.

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I came across and watched this, I don't know, hour and a hour and a half documentary today. It was called Join or Die. Have you seen it? I have not. It's it's not nearly as crazy as it sounds.

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I think I it it it was inspired by a book called Bowling Alone. And it was written, I think, in the sixties or seventies, which is unfortunate. Jimmy Carter just died. I don't know if you got an error message. Yeah.

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I got a notification on Reddit, but, which is sad. But a 100 years, it's about all we can any of us could hope for. Right. More than most. Yeah.

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So, but it it it started in that era. But, the guy who wrote the book, he basically did a did a study, of the rise of Individualism ultimately being the decline of communal ideas and communal living. And, and there were, there were a lot of different people from different backgrounds talking things, things like unions, which obviously are, heavily government focused or leadership focused, organizations. They're, they have declined. Their membership has declined.

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The, the efforts around unionization has declined. The anti unionization, object has declined. And in a way, I want us to be the kind of proponents for our ideas in the global idea of of unionization. Only through collective movement do we have any individual power? Ultimately, understanding that all people have a place in our society, but some people as individuals have more power, more sway, more say in our government, in our our local our locality in our human world than others do.

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And when and, ultimately, democracy is that concept. It's it's allowing the collective ideas to ultimately lead the direction in which we go. Right. You know, it's funny about the, ironic about the rise of individualism is that our country is a United States of America for a reason. Right?

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They, first of all, the the original 13 colonies, realized that they were gonna be wiped out by their European, you know, founders because they began began to threaten the the power the powers that be across the pond. So they realized they couldn't do that alone as individual states. They tried a confederated system, which didn't work, and then they they wrote the constitution, right, that we have now. That was the longest living document active government document founding document, I think, in existence. So, basically, the, the thing that all Americans are so proud of, our independence and all that sort of stuff happened because we decided to band together to identify as a group, to work as a group, to accomplish things that we could not couldn't accomplish alone.

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Right. Now the very people who probably, you know, seem to be the proudest supporters of that concept are also some of the ones who are, like, you know, the most individualistic and leave me alone. You know, don't get off my lawn. Don't ask me for anything. That kind of thing.

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You know? Sure. It's just a it's a strange bizarre sort of outlook or perspective. Yeah. And I think I think it kind of goes into what the documentary and I I mean, I literally watched it today, but it kind of goes further in that Bowling Alone, the guy who wrote it, Robert Putnam.

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Oh, I'm playing with him. Basically looked at the height and looked and and was studied the from the height to this decline that he saw after finally, you know, making that space. But then sort of toward the end, it goes back, the second half of the the, documentary kinda goes back and that he realized after he wrote the book that he didn't look at the other side of that bell curve. Right? Like, so he didn't look at what, what caused the rise to that level of collectivism.

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And he talks about, you know, fraternal organizations and bowling leagues and because that's that's kind of what through the lens in which he saw it is that, you know, when he was growing up in the in the fifties and the sixties, not that he wants to necessarily go back to those times because they had their own issues, but he wrote a companion book to it called The Upswing, with one of his colleagues that kind of talks about the the, it's a prequel, if you will, right, to the bowling alone. What he saw is the the decline. And he talks about what led up to it. And so I have not read that book. I will be I will be adding it to the, the Kindle reading list, as a as a collective idea.

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But I think I think one thing that's important to remember throughout the organization of these things is that I think it also has to coincide with somewhat of a social club, somewhat of a of a, you know, we're we're I hate to say the Masons, but you know, the other fraternal orders Right. To where they actually have chapters and their physical locations that you can use. And I mean, obviously that won't be, that won't be something that'll be available immediately or even is necessarily part of the vision. But part of the decline book kind of said that the, the loss of third spaces. And it even brought up these, labor theaters, which I thought were interesting, that I'd never heard of.

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I guess from the thirties and forties, they had these special spaces that were that had restaurants and things in them. And after really heated town halls and debates and meetings, they would all pile into this, this labor theater and discuss how they could have better conversations, you know, how they could have better meetings, and how they could actually resolve these, these differences between each other after the heated and, and, you know, crazy, crazy meetings. And I thought, man, I think that is something that I not only had never heard of, but I think would be so incredibly useful today is to go, hey. It's okay to disagree. It's okay that I'm mad at you, but we we still want to make forward progress together.

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To have a positive outcome for both of us in the end. Right. And I, again, I think that ultimately we might be viewed as a somewhat political organization with political motivations that at times will align with 1 party or another, or a third party or another. But ultimately, I think it's important to identify people who have the same ideas that we do, individually, rather than focusing on a human being who has all of the traits or all of the beliefs that we want to. One thing I've struggled with looking at a bunch of different fraternal organizations is that every single one of them requires a belief, in a higher power, supreme being that controls the universe.

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And so it's precluded me from joining any of the fraternal orders or the fraternal organizations for that reason. I don't think that there ultimately should be much in terms of membership requirements except a desire to see the furthering of future people. Right. Pro human. Pro human.

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Right. Pro human for tomorrow. Right. And utilizing whatever that might be. And and that could be, you know, finding a way around scarcity, of of supplies and demands, and it could be helping to create a more social socially aware community and organization as a whole.

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So I don't know I don't know necessarily how to sum that up in 16 sentences, but maybe maybe one day we can type it all out as a manifesto. But, those have been things that have been on my heart mainly in the sense that I do a lot of those things already. Right? Like, I'm I'm, I personally kinda buck that trend of continually finding the hyperindividualism so that I can be on my own and not meet other people. I try to community engage and to organize groups of like minded individuals around topical things, whether that be music or a book club or, you know, let's read this book together.

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Not even necessarily a book club. Just saying, hey. We're all on the same team. This book is really, is really a good one that I enjoy. Let's work, let's work our way through it chapter at a time, and continually use those techniques to improve, or at the very least create a vocabulary that we can communicate on and and understand the depth of the words we're using rather than just hoping that the other values the the, you know, the values and freedoms that we, that we understand so that we were avoiding buzzwords and and, avoiding offending one another.

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Right. I think, I think that I like your idea of sort of or your understanding of these opposing forces somewhat of, like, wanting to be individual and wanting to be kind of self sustaining and and on your own and not have to depend on anybody, but also to enjoy the free association of people, you know, that you choose to be around. You know, as opposed to people that you're forced to exist around, which, you know, in some cases, your neighbors are people who didn't in most cases, for most people, your neighbors are not people who you selected. The people who happen to be there when you got there or who come after you get there, and those are now your neighbors, and you have to deal with it. Then that's fine.

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That's gonna happen. But, also, if you have a group of people that you're able to work with, that you enjoy working with, you've chosen to associate with, those people can be the the people that you work together with to accomplish bigger goals because some goals require more humans more than one human to to happen. So Of course. And and, I mean, I I would say that there's a whole lot of goals, especially, like, regarding the future of humanity. Right?

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That that none of us none of us can realistically say the things that I do will make humanity better in the future. Unless we're training the one AI to rule them all. Again, still not one person can do that. True. It's true.

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Yeah. Right? Otherwise because then you're just creating a clone of yourself, and who wants that? Me for, like, 6 days. Yes.

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And I get to pick those days by the hour. Right. But, yeah. I and, I think I think that that is I don't know. That that's kind of the juice.

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Right? That's that's the juice that this whole idea and concept is made of is if I could make the world better by myself, I would. Right. But I know that I can't. I accept that I can't.

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And I don't just wanna be okay with that. I wanna do something about it. Right. And I know that I need other people. So let me reach out to other people about different ideas and different things.

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And, hey, look, Maybe you don't agree with the giantness of an organization this big, but there's one very specific thing that's really, really important to you. And we agree on that thing. Let's work on it together. Come in. Enjoy the benefits of a group of people who's willing to help you because we believe in the same issue.

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And then, hey, if that's not your deal anymore, no bigs. Thanks for thanks for helping us out. Once we get to that point where I don't know. What's something that will make humanity better, Will? Widespread free education.

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Quality education. Health care? Health care. Yeah. Health care in a way that we don't have to choose between our needs and and, our our sure to short term, needs versus our long term health.

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Right. If you have to skip several meals to see the doctor, it's not a not a great combination of, It's so much more than that too. I I was, I actually tried to have a conversation with Gemini. It's and ultimately, you know, it's it's not it doesn't doesn't certainly, take the place of a counselor. But ultimately, it said kind of, what I consider to be kind of a trope of a counselor.

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That does sound difficult. Tell me more about how you feel, you know? Like Yeah. It's like, k. Well, maybe I can go to to therapy.

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Okay. Personal therapy, BetterHelp is what? $250 a month. I can't afford that. Right.

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That's a car payment for some people. I mean, heck, that that might be your your portion of the rent in a shared apartment. Right. But okay. Let's say I can't afford it.

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What do I what do I have to sacrifice? Do I have to sacrifice my car payment, a couple of meals? You know, like, should I should I have to to sacrifice sleep, you know, so that I can get another job and and and only sleep 4 hours a night? Well, no. That's gonna hurt my long term physical health Right.

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Because my mental health is too expensive. So I had to take on another another job. I, one of the the things I'm actually kinda looking forward to in the concept of it all is I'm really hoping in in situations like the, when I had my my libertarian bent, and there's, of course, still a lot of things that I agree with, in the libertarian camp, but the idea that their labor matters too. Like, we can't just erase their labor. We can't force someone to work for us at a price that we see fit because we can't afford the full price.

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And it would come back to well, ultimately, I value that. The idea that we can't force someone to work, greater than I I agree with the idea that everyone should have reasonable and affordable access to mental health care. Right. You know, it's like, okay. Alright.

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Well but we both agree that mental health is important. And the biggest obstacle to seeking care for mental health right now is the cost for the average person. Right. You know? And it's I I think it's putting it's putting those things together.

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And so it's not that we don't agree. It's we don't disagree that people should have access to affordable mental health care. We just agree. We just we just decided to to prioritize it differently in our own individualistic viewpoints. Right.

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Like, one of the things we can't make positive legislation and positive forward movement toward making mental health care less expensive and more accessible. Right. So one person might opt for an approach that values the, freedom of contract and says, we can't lower the wages of mental health care, providers, and force them to provide mental health at a a below living wage or whatever. Another person might say, well, you know, if that's what it takes, it's that important, so I'm willing to do that. And then you have to have a discussion about, okay, was there other other ways, the other options?

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Like, can we sub, subsidize them? Right? So we were paying them a, you know, viable living wage while also giving them the money to to offset. Like, when they're when they're treating people who can afford it, they can charge full price. When they're treating people who can't, then they charge less, but we we supplement or something like that.

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Like, there are all sorts of ways to solve every any problem. So, like, I think that's part of what we're gonna be doing is talking about the implications of different ways to solve the problems and, you know, prioritize various values. And, then we'll see if we can get enough agreement on the core values to work together to achieve the the, program even though we may disagree on some of the, secondary or tertiary values. Sure. As a as a guiding principle, I know I personally think that if we continue the way that our country is currently continuing, it will not be sustainable for the future.

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Do you think that that is a is a shared viewpoint throughout the, throughout the future of what we're building? I think our trajectory is appears to be unsustainable. I'm reluctant to put hard lines on saying that it is unsustainable just because there there are things we can't foresee that could come about. But I think that it's clear to me that our our direction right now, our trajectory right now is not towards my understanding of sustainability or my optimal societies by any stretch of the imagination. Is that k.

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Not too vague or too, I don't know. I'm not trying to be wishy washy. I just I'm No. I don't think you are. Absolutely.

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What I'm trying to do, I think, is I'm trying to I like the concept and idea of pillars. Right? Like like, what are the pillars that that are are the foundation for what we're trying to accomplish? Right. Right?

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And so what I'm trying to distill out of, at least through conversation is trying to distill those pillars. Right? The pillars of of where we're trying what we're trying to build, what are the what are the core values that Right. Besides besides the general value that I wanna see, you know, I wanna see humanity be better for the future. But I think the only way to do that is to peel off all of our skin and find, you know, like like an an AI organism that can bind with us and become better humans.

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I I would probably not agree with that. But the idea, the idea of that, of that I is something that we might initially say, yeah. Yeah. We agree. But hide that the the foundation really being that I think we should all tear off all of our skin.

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Like, that's Right. That's not conducive to the outcome. Right. Yeah. I think I think the key for me is just sort of understanding or the way I wanna conceptualize government or policy well, politics, I guess, would be to say that, there are certain formations, like migratory birds, for instance.

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If they fly in a certain formation, they can fly a lot farther and get where they're going a lot, more quickly or more of them could survive to get where they're going than they can alone. Right? And and that but part of that depends on not only there being multiple, individuals willing to work together, but also that they will, agree to play their role at certain points. Right? It's not fun to be the front bird when you're taking all the wind, you know, taking all the the full force of the the wind, so that the birds behind you can fly a little bit easier.

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But you take that roll on because you know it's gonna rotate out. It's gonna replace you and so on and so forth. I think that's what I'd like to sort of see. One of my pillars, I guess, would be that government exists or government should exist to, allow us as a group to go farther than we could alone or as a as a collective collection of individuals. Okay.

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If it's not doing that, then it's not sustainable. Because otherwise, I mean, at some point, you're gonna realize that the group is bugging you down or bringing you down, and you're gonna wanna isolate or separate from it. That's what I think a lot of groups have done. Okay. Well, what, I mean, we both kind of identified that the first the first step that we would take in building it is to get on these calls, chat about what we're trying to accomplish and why, and and, a, for posterity, b, for me to hold myself accountable to what what I say I'm gonna do, and make sure that I'm holding myself to the same standard that I hold I I hold my government.

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But also as a means of creating a unified platform from which to launch the beginnings of of our media and the beginning of understanding and the beginning of our authenticity and our authentic plea to other people who probably feel like we do, to, in a sense, collectivize. Is there anything is there anything in that realm or in those that spirit that you think would, would be worthy of expounding upon right now? In terms of the, like, what steps we can take we can actually take what what sorts of, measures are are are best suited to our time and efforts right now or resources? Yes. I I think, I think one thing that seems to be consistent in or one thing I've learned in the past year is that existing organizations, although they may have all sorts of problems, and and I know we've recently you've recently dealt with the debt the negatives of an existing organization.

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And I don't think we should, in any way, like, prioritize those over ours or, like, try and necessarily co opt an existing organization. But I do think that utilizing existing organizations is a is an efficient way to do that. So figuring out how to how to how to meet your neighbors in this headspace or this this, ideological space is an important next step for us in the sense that, like, you know, for instance, an existing organization will have an email list already built up. Right? A list of maybe 1,000 or millions of people depending on the organization.

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It seems like it's much easier to get access to their people through ways that work for both of us, that benefit both groups, than it is for us to try and go out and knock on doors or, you know, you know, collect email addresses on our own in any other fashion. Does that make sense? That's just one example. But Oh, a 100%. I think I think one of the things that I've actually been considering too is, is reaching out to some of the producers of some of some already existing podcasts, some already existing video broadcasts, and and try to try to bring the idea forward to them about what we would like to do, what we'd like to see.

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And that and so my that's been kind of my driving force behind having a platform to because, I mean, if we're if we're gonna try to socialize this platform. Right? And and, ultimately, what we're building is social capital through through, through partnering with like minded content creators. Ultimately, to build a movement is to have that platform to sell to begin with. Right?

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I mean, to to to say, this is what we stand for. This is why we're going to be doing this, and this is how we're going to be implementing it. And I think, I think being in that initial growth phase, we're gonna need a handful of things. Right? Before we go on that first podcast, we need to have some sort of, mailing list for them to sign up to to find out more information.

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We need some sort of idea of a website or platform that they can join to stay up to date to participate, to have more information. Right. I fully agree with that. I think, I think there are a lot of things we can do in parallel. I have some ideas about how to do that as well as sort of documenting this process.

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You know, I actually have a a good friend from my, philosophy program at University of Houston that is a filmmaker, and I would love to just have her, like, work with her to sort of document and capture each step along the way with the hopes of sort of setting out there some some sort of, like, you know, ultimate story about what we did, whether it succeeds or fails. Right? We might fail we might fail spectacularly at this. And if we do, I'd love for somebody to be able to see what we did and maybe learn from it so that they can do better. Well, and that's I think I think that's why I've been I'm willing to to do this because even if we fail at our end goal, it's that whole, you know, if you shoot for the stars, reaching the moon isn't so bad.

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Right? Like Right. Like, ultimately, whatever we do succeed in, hopefully, we leave the world a a place slightly better than where we started from or have pushed the the narrative to be more in the open. Or just giving somebody else a a guide to what not to do if nothing I mean, worst case scenario, here's here's how not to build an organization that changes the world. Right.

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So you don't have to waste your time here to tell you what you're saying. Tale. Yeah. Exactly. I'm fine with that too.

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You know? If we go in with that understanding, then it takes a lot of pressure off. Because you don't have to go in with the idea that we have to do this. We we have to go in with the idea that we're gonna give it our very best effort. And whatever happens, we'll learn something, and we will learn something that can become a lesson for for others.

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So Yeah. We'll leave a trail of breadcrumbs for the next group. Hopefully. Hopefully, the we last long enough as a species to, to continue to learn from our mistakes. And I I I would say some of my personal drive in this has to do with that.

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I wanna make sure that our our species can continue learning from our mistakes, and and one of the things that I feel like we've lost at least at a a gubernatorial level is learning from our prior mistakes, so that we can continually improve, but for the benefit of everyone, not for the benefit of a few. Yeah. Agreed. Cool. Well, I think that's probably adequate for a first for a first draft.

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Mhmm. It'll get us a transcript, and it'll it'll get us recording for posterity that we may be able to to use and and, piece together later. Agree. It'll also take some pressure off of us for that kind of stuff too. Right.

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Without having to feel so scripted, without having to feel so scripted, without having to feel so on. You know? Right. And it's an audio format, but we can still see each other, which is nice. Yeah.

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I like it. I think it works on multiple levels. Do you wanna call it here from a formal from a formal perspective? Or I guess you Unless you unless you have something else? I just wanted to say, like, I think one one thing, and again, as runs counter to your point about being scripted.

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But what I'd like to do is, and we may not have to do it. The beauty of AI, right, is that it can remix everything we do and and they can produce a bit. What I what I was thinking is I'd like to have this sort of, like, 5 minute executive summary at the beginning, which is like if you just wanna know, like, what this episode is about and kinda how we get to wherever we get to at the end of it, here's TLDR. Yeah. TLDR.

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Exactly. And then but also offer the additional background. Like, if you wanna know the history of how we arrived at this place or you wanna talk about, like, you know, the the top thinkers in this field and what they're they're saying about this. Like, we'll have all that in there for you as well. So idea might be that, you know, we'd sort of have the the podcast maybe entirely be a TLDR for a long form subscription newsletter Yeah.

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That people can sign up for. Yeah. Something like that. So Yeah. I'm fine with all of that.

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The other thing is, the close the thing I had there was manifesto for a while, and I I guess still is on some level. Although, I've almost, had it sort of beaten out of me that I can even do this. But I, you know, I had that that goal to get 2,000,000,000 people sort of become a a free really associating, voluntary voluntary political force that no country could ignore. Mhmm. Because that is sort of just a pure purely pragmatic way to go about this is, like, if you get 2,000,000,000 people to do anything or to believe anything or work together for anything, then they can't be ignored.

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And no organization, to my knowledge, has done that thus far. Maybe the UN would be the closest, but I we can talk about the effectiveness of the UN another time, but or ineffectiveness. But, I think that would be one of my overarching goals would be to get 2,000,000,000 people on board with our program so that whatever we decide to do, whatever we promote, or whatever interest we we pursue ultimately, whatever goals we pursue Mhmm. At least the world has to take note of it. At least they have to respond to it.

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They can't just ignore it. Sure. I mean, I think, honestly, even even 500,000, half a1000000 now is seems to be and and that's I mean, that's an arbitrary number, but half a1000000 seems to be the number that I'm starting to see from I I can mean the number. Media organizations were invited just recently to the White House to literally have discussions with Joe Biden and discussions with Biden's outgoing staff about the future. You know, and independent media is starting to be respected.

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And if you look at the organizations that were invited, right, David was one of them. The Young Turks was one of them. The Midas, Midas report with, Ben Meiselis and and these sorts of of independent media outlets, half a 1000000 seems to be the number that people start paying attention. Right? And not when I say people, I mean, like like the government starts paying attention when 500,000 people are are being are, you know, listening to a specific staff of people.

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And I think if we could get to a point where we have a a half a 1000000 people that are willing to not just sign up for a newsletter, cool, great, Not just listen to content that we create or or watch content we create, but that are actively willing to congregate when we when we say, hey. Look. We're gonna do this, and we need signatures, or we're gonna do this, and we're gonna physically show up to these meetings and and be a force that you have to answer these questions and you have to make a difference in the lives of Americans of their own accord, then we half a 1000000 people showing up to literally anything. You know, you can't you can't ignore that. Right.

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Agree. That's a good good, moon landing for our star shot. Right. Right? Yeah.

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2,000,000,000 and we could we could probably replace everyone in the government. Yeah. Just given the the few people that actually, that end up. Voting? Yes.

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Exactly. I was like, why can't I think of this word? But yeah. I mean, what? There's 33,000,000,000 people in the United States?

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330,000,000. 340,000,000. Yeah. Yeah. So 2,000,000,000 people around the world.

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Right. I mean, that's that's more than the population of the United States. So half a 1000000 would be great. 340,000,000 would be awesome. Then we could we could make substantive change, but, I think just 500,000 and we could at least start making a difference in people's lives.

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The funny thing is, the the 2,000,000,000 number came to mind because, this guy that I read a while back, had a similar somewhat of a similar idea. And his, he worked out the numbers. Right? And if you tell 2 people about a plan or, like, get 2 people on board with an idea, and then they do the same thing the next day and the next day and the next day. Mhmm.

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If you only ever tell 2. Right? So it's not even, like, multiplying. You're counting the original people, but just the 2 that you tell, if they tell 2, they tell 2, they tell 2. Mhmm.

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30 lengths down the chain, you get to 2,000,000,000 roughly. So, literally, in a month it's kinda crazy thing about this. But in a month, if you could talk to 2 people today and they could talk to 2 people tomorrow and those people talk to you tomorrow, within a month, you could get 2,000,000,000 people on board or 2,000,000,000 people aware of it. Yeah. I mean I mean, statistically.

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Right. Just the raw mathematics of it is kinda crazy to look at. Yeah. At that point, it becomes exponential. Right.

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Without much work on our end. Yep. So I think maybe agenda for next time. I'm not exactly sure. So let's let's pick a first principle or a pillar, I think.

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Okay. Focus on a pillar, and I think get our pillars laid out would be the best way to go starters. And if someone else comes with more interesting in the meantime, I'm fine to jump onto that. But for just general, like, background Let's write down some ideas of of pillars and ideas. Okay.

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So what yeah. Let's let's just keep it very open, wide open like that, and we'll go from there. Yeah. Alright. Awesome.

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When would you like to meet next? Next week or I'm doing talk about that offline. I'm gonna go ahead and stop the recording. Okay.