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Hey there, overlap podcast listeners. This is your cohost Joshua here.

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If you just so happen to pick us up at this specific podcast,

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this is part two of a two part podcast about the Powell memo.

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If you wouldn't mind, go back to last week's episode, start at part one,

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because otherwise it's going to feel very strange to be here.

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You're not going to understand what's going on.

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You're going to miss out on all of the backstory that led up to where we are now,

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and we look forward to meeting you back here as soon as you're done with that one.

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It's a short one. Thanks so much. Make sure to check out our socials. Fof.Foundation.

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We're on Mastodon and blue sky, the overlap podcast.

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Thanks so much for listening to the overlap.

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This is the point at which everything up until this was kind of giving you context.

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It's giving you a broad background of what America looked like in the first place.

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This is the point at which everything up until this was kind of giving you context is giving

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you a broad background of what America looked like in July 1971.

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Ultimately, that leads to the memorandum we're actually talking about.

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Will why don't you kick us off with that.

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So the memorandum, I think it's such a funny word, but the diatribe as you described before

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was titled Attack on American Free Enterprise System.

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I mean, can you ask for anything more like, you know, just, I mean, he knew his audience,

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right?

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That's all I can say.

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It's Alex Jones.

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I mean, it's literally like an Alex Jones headline.

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Right, right.

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So on August 23, 1971, he sends this memorandum confidentially, right?

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This is not a public playbook or it was not intended to be a public playbook, although

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it was rather quickly released to the public.

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And he sends this memorandum to the US Chamber of Commerce.

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And the US Chamber of Commerce, I mean, is basically like, it's an official sort of vision

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of the big businesses that he's trying to protect, right?

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This is where they gather together and talk about how to succeed in commerce.

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It's commerce, literally the Chamber of Commerce.

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It's literally just like your local Chamber of Commerce, just at a national level.

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Exactly.

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It's basically like, I mean, essentially, this is like the Ten Commandments moment or, you

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know, the golden...

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He comes down from the mountain with the tablet.

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Exactly.

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He's three, three golden tablets, two, two...

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He's emerged from his tobacco haze with the guideline, the playbook for saving America,

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or saving the free enterprise system from America, maybe, is the best way to put it.

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It does sound apocalyptic, like he's talking the equivalent of Fire and Brimstone coming

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down if we don't turn this around.

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And he claims that the system is under a broad attack not just from communists and new leftists,

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right?

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Not just from the...

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New leftists is my favorite one.

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New leftists, as opposed to old leftists.

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Right.

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These are the ones who went farther left.

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Yes.

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But this is more than just the usual players, right?

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This is not the ones that we know about, right?

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The ones that were outed in all the trials, you know, the communists and the witch hunts

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and all that kind of stuff, the McCarthyism.

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This is a broader attack, right?

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This is including perfectly respectable elements of society, which is kind of a shot at the

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other side, right?

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The usual suspects.

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These are just the crazies.

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These are the people you might run into at a dinner party.

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Professors, journalists, clergy, politicians.

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And these are real members of society that are stepping up and saying, "Hey, there's a

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problem here."

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This is you and me.

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And ultimately, what he's saying is people that look like me are attacking the United

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States in this way.

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Right.

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And then he sort of berates in a way his own people by saying that the business community,

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these business leaders, although they're such brilliant minds, they know how to make money,

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right?

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They know how to squeeze every dollar out of everything, out of a business, but they

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have no idea how to defend themselves in the court of public opinion.

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And so he calls them passive weak conciliatory.

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He basically just, you know...

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Reads them.

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Yeah, he eviscerates them and then says he bemoans their apathy and default of business

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in the face of this existential threat, responding with appeasement and aptitude and ignoring

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the problem.

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He's basically just shooting straight at these guys saying, "Hey, look, you can't just keep

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giving them what they're asking for because they're going to ask for more."

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And sets up this slippery slope where people are going to just walk all over businesses,

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which is of course in his mind the worst thing that could happen.

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Basically, you could be forgiven for imagining that Nader is like the vice presidential candidate

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that would drive around in the tank.

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I'm blanking on his name right now.

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Dan Quayle was... oh man, anyway... wasn't Ross Perot.

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No, it wasn't Perot.

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It'll come to me in a minute.

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But basically, you can be imagining like Ralph Nader at the head of a tank division, like

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right outside of DC, about to take over the way Powell is talking about this.

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He paints this picture of imminent invasion and attacks by all these people who are really,

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like, again, just keep in mind, asking for like seatbelt laws and not having poison in

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their food.

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Right.

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Like we're not talking crazy things like "Let's shut down all factories."

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Like no, just like, "Hey, maybe don't dump toxic chemicals into water reservoirs."

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Maybe don't set our rivers on fire because we kind of need them.

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Yeah.

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So, yeah.

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So, he's all fired up about the fact that they're not responding with a heavy enough

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hand and doesn't like these weak CEOs and he basically says, "All right, it's time to

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pony up.

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We need to get together.

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We need to fix this.

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And this is how we're going to do it."

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And then he lays out his strategy, which I, do you want to take over on the forefronts

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of his strategy?

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Yeah, yeah.

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For sure.

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So, basically he said that we have to attack this from all four fronts.

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Right?

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We can't just come at this like a typical army head to head.

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He says that it's got to be a detailed, long range strategic plan on all four fronts at

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one time.

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So, he laid out this kind of all-encompassing counteroffensive that needed to be waged across

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four key parts of American society.

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A commercial manifesto, if you will.

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Yes.

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And look, this is where you could really start to see the shaping of what we're dealing with

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right now today.

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First, the campus.

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He called for re-education of the youth.

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So, he kind of identified the university as the single most dynamic source of anti-business

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sentiment.

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Right?

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So, he was saying, "Colleges are the place where all anti-business sentiment starts."

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So, how did he suggest solving this?

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Well, with fire, of course.

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He called for the US Chamber of Commerce to create and fund its own staff of scholars

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to produce a stream of pro-business research, publications, and even propose creating what

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he called the Speaker's Bureau with polished executives to get the good corporate message

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into campuses to demand equal time to counter critics.

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And also, he called for the evaluation of textbooks in economic, sociology, and political

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science to make sure that the balance was there and that there were fair and factual treatment

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of the free enterprise system.

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Now, his goal was obviously to build a parallel intellectual infrastructure, what do we say,

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alternative black box of creation, and an infrastructure to create an academic counter-establishment

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loyal to corporate interests, not to people's interests.

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Number two, the media.

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He suggested that the US Chamber of Commerce start policing narratives by...and look,

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Powell was obsessed with the news, anything with the media specifically, but especially

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television.

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He saw television as a completely hostile force, completely anti-business, completely

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anti-corporate, completely anti-free market.

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He actually asked and advocated for a "constant surveillance" of the national media and for

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mounting aggressive campaigns to challenge any reporting deemed "unfair to business,"

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but his plan went further than that.

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He wasn't just complaining about it.

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He wanted businesses, again, to fund scholars, to create their own magazines, to publish their

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own books and pamphlets, all which had to meet the "most exciting standards of accuracy

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and professional excellence in order to build credibility and shape public opinion directly."

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This is very much where we have the corporations funding their own research studies and things

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like that.

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This is all where this originated.

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And this links directly back to Philip Morris.

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Exactly.

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Let's find nine out of 10 doctors that agree that Marlboro cigarettes or camels are the

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best, you know.

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The other guy doesn't smoke.

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Yes.

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But the tenth doctor is still alive.

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The next outlet we'll take since it's his specialty, the courthouse.

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Sure.

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So we've got to weaponize the judiciary, says Powell.

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This is where we can see it pay off in spades, right?

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As we're seeing it now that basically he's saying, "We've got to reshape the judiciary.

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We've got to create the candidates.

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We've got to appoint the judges.

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We've got to control the courthouse because that's where these battles are going to be

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fought."

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Right?

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Again, coming off of Big Tobacco, he knows where the battles are going to be, where the

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battle lines are drawn.

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And he sees that liberal and civil rights groups like the ACLU, he calls out by name,

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are far more astute in exploiting judicial action than his own side, right?

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So he sees they've got all the practice, they know how to do this.

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We're failing in this area.

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And so he urges the Chamber of Commerce to create its own legal arm, its own ACLU, counter-ACLU,

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with the stated goal of stop seeing the courts as neutral referees, right?

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So he's basically literally advocating the politicization of the courthouse.

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He's basically saying, "Look, and to be fair..."

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"Pack the courts."

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Right.

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And I don't know if this is being fair to him.

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I think it's being more than fair, but he's a true believer, right?

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When you read the memo, he's not just saying this.

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He really thinks that this is what needs to happen.

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He's convinced.

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A hundred percent.

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Just this reads like his autobiography.

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It doesn't read like a story he wrote.

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Right.

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He's legitimately all in on this.

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And he sees the judiciary as the most important instrument for social, economic, and political

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change.

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And so he says the goal is to stop seeing them as neutral referees, right?

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The vision you have...

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I think most people starting out in law school who aren't already in this world think, "Okay,

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the judge is the neutral referee, right?

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The judge is there to control, to make sure the right evidence gets in.

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They're not there to lean one way or the other.

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They're there to make sure that the case is heard fairly."

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And that's what you think a judge is supposed to do until you actually end up in the courtroom

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in front of one who's been politicized and then you realize, "Oh, wait, we're not playing

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the same game here."

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Suddenly, by evidence, although it fits all the rules of evidence, it's not getting in.

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And the other side, some made-up garbage is coming in by the truckload.

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And I can't imagine why the jury would not want to take my side, right?

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Right.

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It's ridiculous.

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But yeah, so he says, "Let's give up this idea of neutral courts.

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Let's not try to rebalance or make them objectively fair again.

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Let's just do what they're doing and stack the courts."

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And so that's what he said to them about to do and it's paid off.

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And it's because he thought and believed that that's already what was happening from the

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side of the ACLU, that somehow the left was so good at lobbying that they were able to

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get Republican president Richard Nixon to appoint anti-business Democrat leftist judges

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who would oppose business into office.

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It simply wasn't true.

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But he figured, "Let's fight fire with fire.

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Since they're already doing it, we have to do it back."

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But really what it was, it was just a natural occurrence of a progressive system progressing.

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Right.

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Much like it couldn't be true that...

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And he saw that as the threat.

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Yeah.

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It couldn't be true that Nader was actually pointing out all these safety issues and things

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like that.

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It couldn't be the case that the environment was actually being destroyed.

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So it must be leftist judges and people being smuggled in and it's just crazy.

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Exactly.

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Because his backyard was perfectly fine.

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Exactly.

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It was the paranoia that seeks...

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The pond on his family property wasn't polluted.

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Yeah, it was.

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It was just clean.

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There's no way.

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Yeah.

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And lastly, from the Capitol.

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Basically, from appeasement to domination.

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Finally, he argued that kind of business had been politically naive and outmaneuvered.

245
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Capital power, he wrote, for clarity is necessary to be assiduously cultivated and it must be

246
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used aggressively and with determination.

247
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He called for a gigantic, coordinated, relentless lobbying effort.

248
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So he understood that piecemeal efforts by individual companies were just not enough.

249
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Strength, he said, lies in organization in careful, long-range planning and implementation,

250
00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:19,620
in consistency of action over an indefinite period of years, in the scale of financing

251
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available only through joint effort and in the political power available only through

252
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united action and national organizations.

253
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So power wants the government of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations.

254
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For the corporations.

255
00:14:36,180 --> 00:14:37,180
Exactly.

256
00:14:37,180 --> 00:14:42,580
And wants corporations to be able to use the earth and its resources and all of the things

257
00:14:42,580 --> 00:14:49,180
that the planet gives us as they see fit without any regard for individual liberty, individual

258
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freedom.

259
00:14:50,180 --> 00:14:57,220
And look, the genius of this memo, right, this diatribe, is in its own dark and evil

260
00:14:57,220 --> 00:14:59,140
way, it's kind of brilliant.

261
00:14:59,140 --> 00:15:00,140
Oh yeah.

262
00:15:00,140 --> 00:15:07,140
Because it takes the language of liberalism that essentially was winning hand over fist

263
00:15:07,140 --> 00:15:08,600
and re-maneuvers it.

264
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Where do you see that happening today?

265
00:15:11,380 --> 00:15:17,060
You know, it takes the language and literally uses it to mean the opposite but then puts

266
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out such a cultural push to reverse it.

267
00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:24,980
Almost like a dark enlightenment of some sort.

268
00:15:24,980 --> 00:15:25,980
Almost.

269
00:15:25,980 --> 00:15:29,300
I think we have some posts about that.

270
00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:30,300
About that.

271
00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:31,860
One or two.

272
00:15:31,860 --> 00:15:33,000
Who knows.

273
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,000
But so, he wasn't calling for censorship, right?

274
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,260
Just like the left wasn't calling for censorship.

275
00:15:40,260 --> 00:15:43,260
The left was calling for balance.

276
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So Powell asked for balance.

277
00:15:47,140 --> 00:15:50,060
He didn't demand that there be propaganda.

278
00:15:50,060 --> 00:15:54,140
He was just asking for fairness and equal time.

279
00:15:54,140 --> 00:15:55,140
Fairness and balance?

280
00:15:55,140 --> 00:15:57,140
I wonder where we're going to find that.

281
00:15:57,140 --> 00:15:58,380
Fair and balanced.

282
00:15:58,380 --> 00:16:01,360
Especially in news sources.

283
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:09,040
He knew that a naked call for corporate domination of these American institutions would be rejected

284
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,240
out of hand and should have been, right?

285
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:18,720
Instead, he frames this project as a defensive measure.

286
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:27,160
It's just an effort to create a level playing field for business in an anti-business world.

287
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:34,020
So this sort of rhetorical ninja move was really effective, honestly.

288
00:16:34,020 --> 00:16:43,740
It gave sort of a respectable, almost like civic minded public face to a terrible plan

289
00:16:43,740 --> 00:16:51,760
to build a parallel ecosystem of ideas, media, legal power, designed not to create a healthy

290
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:59,940
debate, but to win the debate by overwhelming the opposition with a tidal wave of well-funded,

291
00:16:59,940 --> 00:17:05,220
highly coordinated messaging, and a whole lot of propaganda shared through social media

292
00:17:05,220 --> 00:17:06,540
by Boomer.

293
00:17:06,540 --> 00:17:09,780
Maybe that last part was my own editorial comment.

294
00:17:09,780 --> 00:17:14,460
Now, give equal time to the other side.

295
00:17:14,460 --> 00:17:15,460
Exactly.

296
00:17:15,460 --> 00:17:16,460
Got to give equal time.

297
00:17:16,460 --> 00:17:21,540
He mailed this memo in August of 1971.

298
00:17:21,540 --> 00:17:30,180
It quickly spread through the entirety of Congress and was leaked very, very quickly.

299
00:17:30,180 --> 00:17:36,500
Two months later, actually, Nixon himself nominated him to the Supreme Court.

300
00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:41,540
It sounds like Nixon not only read it, but loved it and was like, "We got to do this,"

301
00:17:41,540 --> 00:17:45,660
ASAP, and immediately nominated him to the Supreme Court.

302
00:17:45,660 --> 00:17:49,180
So the memo, it technically remained confidential.

303
00:17:49,180 --> 00:17:53,500
What that meant was, the government couldn't put it out officially, but it was being leaked

304
00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:55,580
through multiple sources.

305
00:17:55,580 --> 00:18:00,500
And so it didn't actually come to light during the confirmation hearings because confirmation

306
00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:03,520
hearings are public meetings.

307
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:08,620
If something is marked confidential, it cannot be revealed in open.

308
00:18:08,620 --> 00:18:12,500
The judge can see it, but there is no judge in this case.

309
00:18:12,500 --> 00:18:16,340
The judge, ultimately, is the Senate and is Congress.

310
00:18:16,340 --> 00:18:24,960
So it wasn't until, actually, officially, September of 1972, that a journalist, Jack

311
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:30,940
Anderson, actually got hands on a physical copy and exposed it to the world.

312
00:18:30,940 --> 00:18:34,940
He, Jack, called it, or Mr. Anderson, I don't know, whatever.

313
00:18:34,940 --> 00:18:36,300
But Mr. Anderson sounds weird.

314
00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:37,780
It sounds like I'm in the Matrix.

315
00:18:37,780 --> 00:18:44,980
Mr. Anderson called it a blueprint for an assault by big business on its critics.

316
00:18:44,980 --> 00:18:50,420
But surprisingly, and I don't know how this didn't happen, but this public exposure didn't

317
00:18:50,420 --> 00:18:52,780
actually kill the plan.

318
00:18:52,780 --> 00:18:54,780
It supercharged it.

319
00:18:54,780 --> 00:19:00,580
It became a rallying cry in boardrooms across America immediately.

320
00:19:00,580 --> 00:19:05,180
So phase one, the 70s, they mobilized.

321
00:19:05,180 --> 00:19:07,180
Tell us about it, Will.

322
00:19:07,180 --> 00:19:15,280
Well, by the end of 1973, there was a task force stacked with executives from companies

323
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:21,420
like GE and General Motors, public enemy number one of Ralph Nader.

324
00:19:21,420 --> 00:19:24,180
They had translated it into a concrete action plan.

325
00:19:24,180 --> 00:19:27,520
They basically filled in the bullet points.

326
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:33,660
The numbers tell you everything, from 1974 to 1980, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce doubled

327
00:19:33,660 --> 00:19:37,460
its membership and tripled its budget.

328
00:19:37,460 --> 00:19:38,980
That's fast.

329
00:19:38,980 --> 00:19:40,780
That's in the pre-internet days, folks.

330
00:19:40,780 --> 00:19:42,860
I mean that's not a small thing.

331
00:19:42,860 --> 00:19:47,220
In six years, that's 26 minutes in internet time.

332
00:19:47,220 --> 00:19:48,220
That's right.

333
00:19:48,220 --> 00:19:55,980
In 1972, they formed the Business Roundtable, which is a nice dressing for basically a lobbying

334
00:19:55,980 --> 00:20:02,620
group entirely composed of CEOs from the largest companies, which is designed to bring maximum

335
00:20:02,620 --> 00:20:03,620
pressure on Washington.

336
00:20:03,620 --> 00:20:08,260
So basically, this is all the powerful heads of the most powerful companies all coming

337
00:20:08,260 --> 00:20:13,280
together to get their stories aligned and basically pressure Washington to get on board

338
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,780
or get out of their way.

339
00:20:16,780 --> 00:20:20,500
The number of corporations with their own registered lobbying offices in D.C. exploded.

340
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:23,060
Remember you were talking about lobbyists.

341
00:20:23,060 --> 00:20:27,440
The days before this lobbying was that backroom kind of deal.

342
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,260
This is where lobbyists went mainstream.

343
00:20:30,260 --> 00:20:31,260
Exactly.

344
00:20:31,260 --> 00:20:35,980
This was sort of that pivotal moment where lobbying went from something you did through

345
00:20:35,980 --> 00:20:46,180
protests and through civil action to "we pay people now to hound these elected leaders

346
00:20:46,180 --> 00:20:47,340
relentlessly."

347
00:20:47,340 --> 00:20:54,180
Right, and either make their lives miserable or make their lives so cushy they can't leave,

348
00:20:54,180 --> 00:20:57,540
right, depending on which side they're on.

349
00:20:57,540 --> 00:21:07,460
They went from 175 registered lobbying offices in 1971 to just one decade later, not 5x-ing,

350
00:21:07,460 --> 00:21:15,500
not even 10x-ing, but up to 2,500 registered lobbying offices almost in just a decade.

351
00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:19,180
It was an army of policy warriors, as one might put it.

352
00:21:19,180 --> 00:21:20,980
That's what it was.

353
00:21:20,980 --> 00:21:22,540
Powell mobilized an army.

354
00:21:22,540 --> 00:21:24,840
The mobilization is exactly the right term.

355
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:32,780
These people were out there writing laws and submitting them to senators and congresspeople

356
00:21:32,780 --> 00:21:39,700
for them to submit on their behalf by funding their campaigns, by giving them RVs if you're

357
00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:45,140
a member of the Supreme Court, by giving them fancy dinners, huge vacations, you name it.

358
00:21:45,140 --> 00:21:50,920
There's almost no limitation at this point because lobbying before then was really such

359
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,260
a grassroots kind of thing.

360
00:21:53,260 --> 00:21:54,380
These people didn't have money.

361
00:21:54,380 --> 00:21:56,100
They had time.

362
00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:59,060
Now it's the businesses funding it.

363
00:21:59,060 --> 00:22:01,500
They have the money.

364
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:04,780
And the time and the resources and everything else they need.

365
00:22:04,780 --> 00:22:05,780
Exactly.

366
00:22:05,780 --> 00:22:13,960
So, why don't you tell us about how this ecosystem of influence developed from there?

367
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:20,500
Yeah, so this wasn't just about adding lobbyists to Washington really.

368
00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:26,780
Following the blueprint put out by this memo, the business community actually build this

369
00:22:26,780 --> 00:22:35,500
giant interconnected megalith ecosystem of institutions and corporations and businesses

370
00:22:35,500 --> 00:22:43,380
specifically designed to fight and win the war of ideas on every single front.

371
00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:51,780
1973, the Heritage Foundation, our favorite new one, was directly born out of this new

372
00:22:51,780 --> 00:22:55,220
business activist movement inspired by the Powell Memorandum.

373
00:22:55,220 --> 00:23:01,220
It was created in 1973 by conservative activists, Paul Weirich and Edwin Fuehlner, with seed

374
00:23:01,220 --> 00:23:08,100
money from the brewing magnet Joseph Coor and tens of millions more from billionaire

375
00:23:08,100 --> 00:23:10,500
Richard Mellon Scaife.

376
00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:16,980
Their main goal was to create a conservative version of the respected Brookings Institution,

377
00:23:16,980 --> 00:23:20,300
but with a crucial difference.

378
00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:29,660
The Heritage Foundation didn't want to create these dense academic books and studies that

379
00:23:29,660 --> 00:23:32,140
gathered dust on shelves.

380
00:23:32,140 --> 00:23:34,640
They wanted to be marketers.

381
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:39,780
They were the first, I guess, admin of the political space.

382
00:23:39,780 --> 00:23:47,260
It produced basically short, punchy, easy to read, easy to digest backgrounders that

383
00:23:47,260 --> 00:23:53,440
they called them, and policy papers designed to be read by busy congressmen either on the

384
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,980
way to a floor vote or a quick gaze in the toilet room.

385
00:23:57,980 --> 00:24:02,380
So it's masterpiece from the 1981 Mandate for Leadership.

386
00:24:02,380 --> 00:24:07,420
Now, this is a 3000 page document, a 20 volume report.

387
00:24:07,420 --> 00:24:12,060
So even though they said they didn't want to create these large academic texts, they did,

388
00:24:12,060 --> 00:24:13,900
and they still do.

389
00:24:13,900 --> 00:24:16,580
I did not read this 3000 page report, it's 20 volumes.

390
00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:22,800
It has 2000 specific policy recommendations for the Reagan administration.

391
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,300
So again, where does this sound familiar?

392
00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:33,520
1981 Mandate for Leadership was essentially Project 2025, but for Reagan.

393
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,020
So it was Project 1980.

394
00:24:35,020 --> 00:24:36,920
I did have AI summarize it.

395
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:43,340
It is essentially every building block that led to Project 2025.

396
00:24:43,340 --> 00:24:45,180
It's a playbook for the Reagan Revolution.

397
00:24:45,180 --> 00:24:52,300
Reagan was so impressed that he actually had printed and bound a copy to every member of

398
00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:54,500
his cabinet.

399
00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:59,780
At the end of the first year in office, 60% of the proposals from that Mandate for Leadership

400
00:24:59,780 --> 00:25:03,140
had been implemented or initiated.

401
00:25:03,140 --> 00:25:09,640
This direct pipeline of influence continues right now in Project 2025.

402
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,420
That's incredible.

403
00:25:12,420 --> 00:25:16,660
It's insane that Project 2025 started in 1971.

404
00:25:16,660 --> 00:25:18,300
Right.

405
00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:24,220
But really in 1981, with the Heritage Foundation making this happen and the right person and

406
00:25:24,220 --> 00:25:29,160
the right amount of money to put this on the president's desk and the president to buy

407
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,380
it wholesale.

408
00:25:31,380 --> 00:25:34,500
It was awful and it still is.

409
00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:42,820
The next, the American Legislative Exchange Council called ALEC also in 1973.

410
00:25:42,820 --> 00:25:45,220
This was a bill mill.

411
00:25:45,220 --> 00:25:48,020
Literally exactly what it is.

412
00:25:48,020 --> 00:25:52,460
The Heritage, you know, was the idea factory.

413
00:25:52,460 --> 00:25:54,060
It was the marketing arm.

414
00:25:54,060 --> 00:25:57,740
ALEC was an assembly line for turning those ideas into laws.

415
00:25:57,740 --> 00:25:58,740
Right.

416
00:25:58,740 --> 00:26:04,760
It was also co-founded by Paul Weirich in 1973.

417
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,540
ALEC's creation has actually been attributed also back to the MIMO's influence.

418
00:26:09,540 --> 00:26:17,440
It operates as this undercover Black Ops pay to play operation where corporate lobbyists

419
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:24,880
and state senators meet behind closed doors away from the public to vote as equals on

420
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,660
pre-written model bills.

421
00:26:26,660 --> 00:26:33,260
News paying corporations from fossil fuel giants, pharmaceutical companies, private prison operations,

422
00:26:33,260 --> 00:26:40,580
they all get a seat at the table to draft legislation that serves their bottom line.

423
00:26:40,580 --> 00:26:46,260
And these legislators then take these corporate approved bills back to their home states, introduce

424
00:26:46,260 --> 00:26:52,580
them often word for word, copy for copy, verbatim as their own work.

425
00:26:52,580 --> 00:26:54,480
I imagine they probably have a style guide.

426
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:55,940
This is even still happening today.

427
00:26:55,940 --> 00:26:56,940
Oh, I'm sure.

428
00:26:56,940 --> 00:27:00,840
It's like the APA guidelines is the new ALEC guide.

429
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:01,980
I'm sure hell.

430
00:27:01,980 --> 00:27:07,660
I'm sure they've co-opted the tech billionaires, that it's basically just mad libs for horrible

431
00:27:07,660 --> 00:27:08,660
causes.

432
00:27:08,660 --> 00:27:09,660
Exactly.

433
00:27:09,660 --> 00:27:12,900
You just plug in your tax breaks and your pork and you get a bill.

434
00:27:12,900 --> 00:27:13,900
Exactly.

435
00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:14,900
Good.

436
00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:15,900
Done.

437
00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:21,260
Basically, let's run through some of ALEC's worst, I guess, greatest hits.

438
00:27:21,260 --> 00:27:22,260
Worst greatest hits.

439
00:27:22,260 --> 00:27:23,260
Is that a thing?

440
00:27:23,260 --> 00:27:29,260
If by hits you mean economic attacks, then yes, greatest hits.

441
00:27:29,260 --> 00:27:32,380
The first they gave us is actually the Castle Doctrine.

442
00:27:32,380 --> 00:27:36,060
You might know this as the Stand Your Ground laws.

443
00:27:36,060 --> 00:27:40,420
This was pushed directly by the National Rifle Association and was adopted by-

444
00:27:40,420 --> 00:27:42,620
Of course, how is it to stand your ground?

445
00:27:42,620 --> 00:27:43,620
Exactly.

446
00:27:43,620 --> 00:27:44,620
If you don't have a gun.

447
00:27:44,620 --> 00:27:45,620
I mean-

448
00:27:45,620 --> 00:27:46,620
Right.

449
00:27:46,620 --> 00:27:47,620
Adopted in dozens of states.

450
00:27:47,620 --> 00:27:51,660
It was to keep guns from being regulated.

451
00:27:51,660 --> 00:27:54,500
So you can kill people willy-nilly as long as they're on your property.

452
00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:59,940
I can remember when I was back in the day, when I was in my more conservative days, being

453
00:27:59,940 --> 00:28:05,540
told that if a burglar is breaking into your house, shoot them and drag them across your

454
00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:08,340
door and the police won't even ask.

455
00:28:08,340 --> 00:28:09,340
Right.

456
00:28:09,340 --> 00:28:14,100
I remember hearing also ideally, shoot them dead so that they don't have any-

457
00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:15,100
They can't sue you.

458
00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:16,100
They can't turn around and sue you.

459
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:17,100
Yeah, obviously, that-

460
00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:22,420
I remember that burglar, it was because of that burglar that I don't even know if it's

461
00:28:22,420 --> 00:28:27,260
urban legend, but a burglar broke into some lady's house through the skylight and-

462
00:28:27,260 --> 00:28:28,260
Broke his leg.

463
00:28:28,260 --> 00:28:29,260
Fell on a knife.

464
00:28:29,260 --> 00:28:30,260
I see.

465
00:28:30,260 --> 00:28:31,260
Yeah, okay.

466
00:28:31,260 --> 00:28:32,260
It was.

467
00:28:32,260 --> 00:28:33,260
It fell on a knife and it damaged his leg.

468
00:28:33,260 --> 00:28:39,140
He ended up losing a portion of his leg and then sued the lady and won.

469
00:28:39,140 --> 00:28:41,060
So, that was something that they used.

470
00:28:41,060 --> 00:28:45,980
Also next, they wrote the Critical Infrastructure Protection Act.

471
00:28:45,980 --> 00:28:50,440
Now, this is actually a favorite of the fossil fuel industry that they've now rebranded,

472
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:57,480
I believe, as the energy industry that reclassifies peaceful pipeline protest as felonies with

473
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,780
draconian penalties.

474
00:29:00,780 --> 00:29:04,220
Versions of that law have passed in at least 19 states.

475
00:29:04,220 --> 00:29:06,260
I mean, you can guess who they are.

476
00:29:06,260 --> 00:29:12,780
It's like Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina, Florida,

477
00:29:12,780 --> 00:29:15,500
it's all the ones you think.

478
00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:22,940
They're also behind the very cleverly named Asbestos Transparency Act, which actually

479
00:29:22,940 --> 00:29:30,260
makes it harder for dying mesothelioma patients to sue the corporations that poisoned them

480
00:29:30,260 --> 00:29:33,060
by forcing them through a bureaucratic maze.

481
00:29:33,060 --> 00:29:35,020
That's currently law in 12 states.

482
00:29:35,020 --> 00:29:40,140
Basically, funded a giant pool of money and you basically got to buy your way out of any

483
00:29:40,140 --> 00:29:44,160
future lawsuits as long as you're willing to put up the right amount and then they divvy

484
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:45,960
it out.

485
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,740
And surprised there's not enough to go around.

486
00:29:48,740 --> 00:29:49,980
Imagine.

487
00:29:49,980 --> 00:29:50,980
That's just to start.

488
00:29:50,980 --> 00:29:56,420
ALEC has actually produced thousands of model bills, including ones we're seeing passed

489
00:29:56,420 --> 00:30:04,220
almost every day now by executive order to weaken unions, cut corporate taxes, privatize

490
00:30:04,220 --> 00:30:09,700
public schools, rollback environmental protections, and restrict voting rights.

491
00:30:09,700 --> 00:30:13,140
Do you want to tell us about the next one, Will?

492
00:30:13,140 --> 00:30:18,660
I think Legal Foundation, these are the legal eagles of the movement.

493
00:30:18,660 --> 00:30:23,340
Basically this is the counter to groups like the Sierra Club.

494
00:30:23,340 --> 00:30:28,080
You're so familiar with their protests and their work in the courtrooms.

495
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,260
This is the counter to them.

496
00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:32,260
This is their counterinsurgency, so to speak.

497
00:30:32,260 --> 00:30:37,140
The first conservative public interest law firm created specifically an account of groups

498
00:30:37,140 --> 00:30:43,300
like the Sierra Club and they basically explicitly quoted, they again took words right out of

499
00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:48,020
Powell's memo at length as their founding doctrine.

500
00:30:48,020 --> 00:30:52,740
And their mission is to use a pro-business, anti-regulatory agenda in the courtroom to

501
00:30:52,740 --> 00:30:59,160
litigate that agenda in those courtrooms that we're trying to stack in the favor of business.

502
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:04,540
And it's actually won 18 of the 20 cases it's argued before the Supreme Court.

503
00:31:04,540 --> 00:31:08,560
That's an amazing win rate, 18 out of 20.

504
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,240
That's 96%, right?

505
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:11,900
90% I think.

506
00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:12,900
90%.

507
00:31:12,900 --> 00:31:16,360
Wow, my math is terrible today.

508
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,420
That's just, they're crazy.

509
00:31:19,420 --> 00:31:21,820
Of course, they're smart about how they choose their cases.

510
00:31:21,820 --> 00:31:26,220
They're efficient, they're good at what they do, but they've been just stunningly successful

511
00:31:26,220 --> 00:31:31,680
at moving forward with their pro-business agenda and establishing presidential cases.

512
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,720
Right, I mean when the Supreme Court says something that's binding on the lower courts.

513
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:37,720
And so they've established these presidents-

514
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,340
I wonder how many court cases the ACLU has won in the Supreme Court.

515
00:31:42,340 --> 00:31:45,180
I don't think it's anywhere near 90% and they are careful.

516
00:31:45,180 --> 00:31:47,460
They make the same kind of choices.

517
00:31:47,460 --> 00:31:50,160
They don't just take any case to the Supreme Court.

518
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,200
They choose their resources, but-

519
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,800
Let me look it up real quick.

520
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,260
We'll see.

521
00:31:55,260 --> 00:31:56,260
Let's see.

522
00:31:56,260 --> 00:32:01,160
It's not specified, however, it is known the ACLU has played a significant role in approximately

523
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:06,420
80% of the landmark cases brought before the court since its founding in 1920.

524
00:32:06,420 --> 00:32:10,680
So they don't actually, I mean, I'm sure it's in the records somewhere, but I don't think

525
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,160
the ACLU makes a public statement about it.

526
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,740
If it was 90% they probably would.

527
00:32:16,740 --> 00:32:17,740
I know, exactly.

528
00:32:17,740 --> 00:32:22,820
If it was 90%, they would be putting that out from the rooftops.

529
00:32:22,820 --> 00:32:28,880
But they've also had way more cases in general, which kind of makes sense.

530
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,900
If you have a lucky strike playing pool, you might win nine out of 10 games, but if you

531
00:32:34,900 --> 00:32:40,400
extrapolate it over time, that percentage of luck tends to drop.

532
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,920
But regardless, they still have.

533
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:49,740
So ultimately, the success of the Powell memo wasn't actually in creating the memo itself,

534
00:32:49,740 --> 00:32:50,740
right?

535
00:32:50,740 --> 00:32:53,960
It wasn't even in, it wasn't even in writing it.

536
00:32:53,960 --> 00:33:02,960
It's really the fact that he fostered and integrated a self-reinforcing ecosystem for creating,

537
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:09,820
spreading and defending conservative policy throughout the U.S. since 1971.

538
00:33:09,820 --> 00:33:16,700
A corporation like ExxonMobil, right, can completely fund a study at the Heritage Foundation

539
00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:20,200
that questions climate science, period.

540
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,920
But Heritage will take that and turn it into a policy brief.

541
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:31,280
ALEC, funded by Exxon, uses the brief to draft a model bill repealing clean energy standards.

542
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,400
Then an ALEC legislator introduces the bill.

543
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,020
Then the Chamber of Commerce lobbies for the bill.

544
00:33:38,020 --> 00:33:42,100
And if the law is challenged, the Pacific Legal Foundation steps in to defend it before

545
00:33:42,100 --> 00:33:48,260
a judge from the Federalist Society who is philosophically inclined to oppose the regulatory

546
00:33:48,260 --> 00:33:49,440
state.

547
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:56,080
It's literally a closed loop system for laundering corporate money and influence into public

548
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:57,240
policy.

549
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,980
This is automation before AI.

550
00:33:59,980 --> 00:34:00,980
Exactly.

551
00:34:00,980 --> 00:34:03,800
It's, I mean, give credit where credit is due.

552
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:12,300
It is the perfect execution of what Powell laid out in his diatribe of United Action.

553
00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:15,400
It is an entire factory that just does this.

554
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:25,800
So the results of this now coming upon half of a century campaign has entirely reshaped

555
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:31,780
the American political landscape and more than just political, socioeconomic, the wealth

556
00:34:31,780 --> 00:34:34,880
inequality, equality, civil rights.

557
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,240
So the rise of corporate speech, right?

558
00:34:38,240 --> 00:34:44,040
Powell himself, from his seat on the Supreme Court, began protecting and redefining corporate

559
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,460
money as protected speech.

560
00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:53,020
He authored the 1978 majority opinion in the First National Bank of Boston versus Bellotti,

561
00:34:53,020 --> 00:34:59,000
who for the first time granted corporations First Amendment rights to spend money influencing

562
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,080
ballot initiatives.

563
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:06,000
So the next time you receive a phone call about the next ballot initiative, realize

564
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:15,740
that this is a direct result of this memo and this corporate speech case that he championed

565
00:35:15,740 --> 00:35:18,400
on the Supreme Court while he was a justice.

566
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:25,800
It was the first legal step that created the Supreme Court's infamous Citizens United decisions

567
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,400
decades later.

568
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,880
So this is where Citizens United even comes from.

569
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:38,000
And we know, anybody who is, let's say a leftist, knows the Ronald Reagan thing, the Citizens

570
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,360
United thing.

571
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:44,960
I haven't met one person in caulking that knows about the Powell memo and how all this

572
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:51,800
came to be, which is why I really, really felt passionate about this podcast today.

573
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:57,480
To be fair, I mean, there are some people who challenge the idea that the Powell memo

574
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,080
is the source of all of this.

575
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:05,680
People will say it was all in play, but nowhere is there articulated such a clear vision and

576
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,680
no other document is quoted at length in the founding documents of groups like Alec.

577
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:16,680
There's just so much evidence of it out there and nobody's talking about it.

578
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:24,640
And even if it is just a distillation of corporate thought that was happening at the time, it's

579
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:30,320
still a distillation versus random rumblings, right?

580
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,240
That could be directly action.

581
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:34,640
And all parts of it have been executed.

582
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,320
I mean, it really crossed the board.

583
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:38,320
Exactly.

584
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,520
The next one, deregulation, that was a big part of it.

585
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:47,520
The Powell network performed an act of jiu-jitsu politically in the 70s.

586
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,120
There was actually a bipartisan kind of left leaning movement to deregulate industries

587
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,120
like trucking and airlines.

588
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,840
And it was based on the argument that regulatory agencies had been captured by big business

589
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,320
to stifle competition.

590
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:07,000
But the conservative movement actually seized on this popular anti-government sentiment

591
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,400
and then cleverly shifted the target.

592
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:17,800
They conflated economic deregulation with a war on social regulation.

593
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:23,080
Basically the rules that protect public health, worker safety, and the environment, right?

594
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:29,620
Like reframing all government oversight as a drag on the economy because of the government

595
00:37:29,620 --> 00:37:35,160
oversight on these two specific industries that seem to be stifling competition.

596
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:41,360
And that's why even today, I mean, it's part of the cultural zeitgeist of people born in

597
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:47,600
the 80s that government regulation has stifled businesses from doing what they needed to

598
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,040
be successful.

599
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:54,960
We constantly hear it promoted by Fox News, by Newsmax, by all these other organizations.

600
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,760
The ideas that were even promoted by this network, right, sort of created the beginnings

601
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,160
of the idea of supply side or trickle down economics, right?

602
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:10,920
Obviously, it became national policy under Reagan and we credit that to Reagan because

603
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:17,340
it led to massive tax cuts for corporations, and that led to massive tax cuts for the rich.

604
00:38:17,340 --> 00:38:26,520
And it was a full-scale assault on labor, organized labor, and the beginning of the rise in economic

605
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,000
inequality, inequality, un equality, too.

606
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:35,920
Union membership, a key source of the kind of countervailing power to protect people

607
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:45,520
from corporations, plummeted 20% in the workforce in 1983 to 10.1% by 2022.

608
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,720
It halved in the last 40 years.

609
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:52,220
And that's not because things got so good for workers, they didn't feel like they needed

610
00:38:52,220 --> 00:38:53,920
to do this anymore.

611
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:54,920
Exactly.

612
00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:04,040
In the meantime, worker production was increasing exponentially because of innovation.

613
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:11,820
His judicial revolution to reshape judges and courts had the fruits of the rise of the

614
00:39:11,820 --> 00:39:16,380
Federalist Society and the doctrine of originalism.

615
00:39:16,380 --> 00:39:19,360
It was promoted heavily during the Reagan administration.

616
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:25,100
It was the idea that originalism provided the intellectual framework for appointing

617
00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:31,520
a generation of conservative judges committed to rolling back the legacy of the Warren Court

618
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,580
and interpreting the Constitution in a way that is consistently favorable to corporate

619
00:39:35,580 --> 00:39:38,240
power and hostile to regulation.

620
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:39,980
Where do you also see that?

621
00:39:39,980 --> 00:39:44,000
They're starting to win, and we're seeing them win even now, the culture war.

622
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:49,800
Powell's fight for balance in textbooks and on campuses, it hasn't ended.

623
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,020
It hasn't gone anywhere.

624
00:39:51,020 --> 00:39:55,780
And yeah, it sat beside in the wings for a little while during the 90s.

625
00:39:55,780 --> 00:39:56,780
We all remember it.

626
00:39:56,780 --> 00:40:01,640
We imagined a better world into the 2000s and then the dot com bubble.

627
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:08,640
But it evolved into this modern culture war over everything, everything, critical race

628
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:09,640
theory.

629
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:16,760
It was a war for LGBTQIA+ rights with organizations like the Heritage Foundation providing every

630
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:25,360
single talking point and policy proposal for this war on woke ideology in American education.

631
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,780
That's why if you turn to Fox News and you turn to Newsmax and you look at the boomers

632
00:40:29,780 --> 00:40:38,080
on Facebook and the cesspool of Twitter, formerly known as Twitter X, it's the exact same points.

633
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,240
Like sometimes verbatim, right?

634
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:45,300
Sometimes bullet pointed verbatim as arguments because that's what they've heard.

635
00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:50,460
They've heard it parroted at them time and time and time again.

636
00:40:50,460 --> 00:40:56,560
But look, Lewis Powell is garbage, but he got his wish.

637
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:57,840
He got it.

638
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,280
Business organized together.

639
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:10,860
It has fought a long, patient, and brutally effective war on every front that Powell identified

640
00:41:10,860 --> 00:41:12,240
in that original memo.

641
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:15,520
So the result is not a conspiracy.

642
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,720
It's a curriculum.

643
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:19,140
It's a business plan.

644
00:41:19,140 --> 00:41:20,140
It's a framework.

645
00:41:20,140 --> 00:41:25,800
It's a blueprint that succeeded beyond Powell's entire imagination.

646
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,800
We were never the target audience for the Powell memo, right?

647
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,440
Like it wasn't written for us, but we've all been subjected to it.

648
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,960
I'll try a different analogy or metaphor for this.

649
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:44,600
It's the DNA of a parasite that has been feeding off of the American people for the past few

650
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:52,480
decades and has now possibly done its host in and is now seeking to expand to the globe.

651
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,480
Because it was never going to be satisfied.

652
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,320
The parasite has grown larger than its host and its host is depleted.

653
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:58,320
Yeah.

654
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,120
So what does a parasite do when that happens?

655
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,360
It moves on to a new host and guess who that's going to be?

656
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,080
It's still going to be us.

657
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,040
Until our husk is drained of all life-giving fluids.

658
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:11,040
All nutrients.

659
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,720
Yeah, all nutrient value.

660
00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:13,720
Yes.

661
00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:17,440
But there will be others and then we're starting to see that now, right?

662
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,440
The corporations that are outgrowing their countries are happening everywhere.

663
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:26,080
Unfortunately, this playbook was copied by others playing their own games, their own political

664
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:27,080
war games.

665
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,660
And it turned out to be successful.

666
00:42:28,660 --> 00:42:30,720
It's happening now in Germany with AFD.

667
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:33,520
It's happening in Australia.

668
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,160
It's happening in Belgium.

669
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:42,260
I mean, with Ertistan, it's happening everywhere around the globe right now because they found

670
00:42:42,260 --> 00:42:43,460
success.

671
00:42:43,460 --> 00:42:46,360
They found a winning formula, but it's not over.

672
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,060
Not as long as we're here with a voice.

673
00:42:49,060 --> 00:42:54,120
That's not really the conclusion of the podcast today is not, "Oh, look how horrible this is.

674
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:55,120
It sucks."

675
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:56,120
Here's what it is.

676
00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:05,680
One guy... one guy wrote a 34 page letter to a group that proliferated it through society.

677
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:12,160
That's why you see all the pundits, all the commentators, all of the right wing media...

678
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,040
or left wing media saying, "We need someone.

679
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:19,920
We need someone to stand up, take a cohesive vision and share it and spread it."

680
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,600
I challenge if to... especially to all of the leftist people who are listening to our

681
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:31,080
podcast, I challenge you please, I understand the necessity to gatekeep, to keep people

682
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,520
because of whatever.

683
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:33,520
And look, I do it.

684
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:34,520
I'm guilty of it.

685
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,360
I'm not a fan of Gavin Newsom.

686
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:44,480
I think he is part of the corporate demagoguery that the left has essentially become or the

687
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,080
democratic party has essentially become.

688
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,880
I am a progressive period.

689
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:57,760
I think that if we have a person with... and look, we know on the left there's a whole

690
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:04,920
lot of really genius political minds out there that puts forward a plan, even if you don't

691
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:11,920
like the face of the plan or the person delivering it, let's put something together and take

692
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:21,200
action together and make a change that dismantles this utter machine of turds that the right

693
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,240
wing has put together over the last 40 years.

694
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:26,040
45 now, right?

695
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:27,800
Has it been 45?

696
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:28,800
No, not since...

697
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,440
I did my math earlier.

698
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:31,440
55.

699
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:32,440
55 years.

700
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:33,440
Yeah.

701
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:34,440
Yeah.

702
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,440
Will pre does his math.

703
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,440
I do it on the fly.

704
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:39,440
55 years.

705
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:45,440
55 years that they've had their way and have sat by.

706
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:50,000
We might be able to turn it around sooner because the left is better at what?

707
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,760
The internet.

708
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:57,040
We're better at almost everything dealing with communications because for us it happens

709
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:58,040
organically.

710
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:05,380
Anyway, that is where I hope we can find the overlap in our next venture from here.

711
00:45:05,380 --> 00:45:06,380
Where do we go from here?

712
00:45:06,380 --> 00:45:08,440
I really hope we can.

713
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:09,440
You think we can?

714
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,080
Well, I think we can.

715
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:12,080
I'm always the optimist.

716
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:13,080
I think we can do it.

717
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:14,080
It's not going to be easy.

718
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:19,640
It's not going to be fun, but it can be done.

719
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,880
Look, you're going to have to swallow things you don't like.

720
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,160
It sucks.

721
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:24,160
It's like medicine, right?

722
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,320
Like medicine tastes terrible, but we know it's going to make us better.

723
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:33,080
If we can find that plan, and maybe that's democratic socialism, maybe that's something

724
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:37,920
else that none of us have ever heard of before, but it takes us being open and receptive.

725
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:46,040
Then, jumping on it because it's left of where we are right now until a better one comes

726
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:47,040
along.

727
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,040
I've heard one of the best analogies for this, and I genuinely love this analogy because

728
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,640
I think it fits so well.

729
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:59,920
A political candidate is not a car to your destination.

730
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:04,240
It's a bus that's heading in the direction that you need to go in.

731
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:06,160
It's not a last mile service.

732
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:07,960
Well, it is a last mile service.

733
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:09,620
It's not a less step service.

734
00:46:09,620 --> 00:46:11,480
It's a last mile service.

735
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,380
Find a bus that's going in your direction.

736
00:46:13,380 --> 00:46:15,580
If that's democratic socialism, awesome.

737
00:46:15,580 --> 00:46:18,680
If that's democracy, awesome.

738
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,040
If that's the Democratic party, great.

739
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,920
If that's the Republican party, you're listening to the wrong show.

740
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:30,440
I'm sure there's plenty of Charlie Kirk's out there that are happy to give you all of

741
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,120
the wins that you guys have been racking up.

742
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:34,120
Yeah.

743
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:35,860
I'm not going to give you equal time here.

744
00:46:35,860 --> 00:46:37,680
You don't deserve the equal time.

745
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,300
You've had 55 years and it's not going great for the rest of us.

746
00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:42,880
So is it going great for you?

747
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,440
I doubt it.

748
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,800
It's going great for a lot of rich people.

749
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,560
It's not going great for you.

750
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:53,340
As always, as I am required to do by the contract that we wrote ourselves and agreed to at the

751
00:46:53,340 --> 00:46:56,600
beginning, please check out our social media sites.

752
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,680
Are available through Blue Sky.

753
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,440
We are available through Mastodon.

754
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:08,240
You can go to our website, fof.foundation@https://fof.foundation.

755
00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:09,520
Make sure you check us out there.

756
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:15,320
You can send us an email to overlappodcast@fof.foundation.

757
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,440
We will get that email and be happy to return your email if you have questions, comments,

758
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:20,440
concerns.

759
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,560
Will, thank you for being here with me today.

760
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,480
Thank you for having me here today as always.

761
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:27,560
Of course.

762
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:32,860
We hope that you will like and subscribe, give us a rating, tell us what you think, share

763
00:47:32,860 --> 00:47:38,700
us with a friend that you think would really benefit from this podcast if you specifically

764
00:47:38,700 --> 00:47:39,700
connected with it.

765
00:47:39,700 --> 00:47:42,760
Or we taught you something that you didn't know before.

766
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:48,800
That is the overlap for this week's episode and we wish you the best.

767
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:50,280
Have a good one.

768
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,680
See you next time.

769
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,160
Bye.

770
00:47:54,160 --> 00:48:24,120
[Music]